The long, drawn out, musings blog. But hey, it's a Sunday!
Is ashtanga really a life-long practice? Does it actually make people healthier? Why does it seem that everyone gets injured at some point, and how many long-term practitioners are still practicing ashtanga yoga as taught in Mysore?
Okay Jason, this one is for you.
Ashtanga yoga is "advertised" as a life-long practice. Let us first consider exactly what constitutes as the life-long practice. The Yoga Sutras say that "practice" does not refer only to asana, but to the "effort toward steadiness of mind". So although I might say that I'm going to "do my practice", I am probably referring to "doing my asana practice". Asana (poses) are only one segment of the complete ashtanga yoga system, so really, I am always trying to practice an effort toward steadiness of mind. I don't go into "yoga mode" for one hour and a half while I throw myself around on a cotton rug and then go outside to yell obscenities at each asshole who crosses my path. And what if I broke my arm? What would I do then?
But if it isn't about the asanas, then how about that quote that people love: "99% practice 1% theory"? What does this really mean? 99% doing vinyasas, 1% reading philosophy? 99% muscle, 1% brain? I think it's more like 99% moving toward stillness, 1% gathering more information on how to do that. (Although one could even argue that "gathering" is effort as well. I think the real point here is that one has to actually be actively DOING this stuff rather than just sitting around thinking about how maybe one day it will come knocking on the front door.)
So if our definition of practice includes much more than asana, then it is easy to imagine people practicing well into their nineties. Might Guruji be practicing asana right now in Mysore had he not gone through his tragic loss of a son? Who can say? Would Krishnamacharya have him doing asana to help his health problems? Maybe. We see many photos and videos of Krishnamacharya practicing asana and pranayama into very old age. But for whatever reason, as far as I know, Guruji does not currently practice asana. What his daily practice consists of I cannot say. Ask him when you're in Mysore...
Does ashtanga make people healthier? If we talk only about the asanas, we find that each asana has therapeutic benefits for the body and mind from helping to remove "bad fat" to massaging the liver to aiding constipation or urinary tract problems. The vinyasa method and ujjayi pranayama each have benefits as well. Additionally, the lifestyle surrounding ashtanga yoga asana practice and ashtanga yoga practice in general promotes healthy life choices. However, like anything else in life, it is about balance, and with a little bit of effort, we can easily overdo it.
The more I think about it, the more it becomes obvious that this system is only harmful if we make it that way and we tend to make it that way when we get really involved with the ego. For example, why would someone carry on an unhealthy form of extreme dieting unless they felt that it would make their practice better? (I want to "get" karandavasana so I'm doing macrobiotic fast number 7.) Isn't it possible to make gradual changes that are healthy or even to be patient and not obsess about progress? When does effort toward stillness become unhealthy or even dangerous?
So is ashtanga yoga a yoga of injuries and pain? We can break pain and injuries associated with ashtanga yoga into a few different categories. The first type of pain is associated with an injury that was already an injury before the asana and as we push ourselves into something (because we feel we have to accomplish it) the pain of the preexisting injury doesn't go away. The second kind of pain comes when we go deeper into something and discover a misalignment that was already there and as we work through it (because we want to perfect the asana) it causes us pain. The third kind of pain happens when we push hard to get into an asana and get injured because we weren't doing it properly or weren't prepared to practice it. The fourth kind of pain comes from faking the ability to practice a posture and getting injured when a teacher calls the bluff and adjusts us deeper or allows us to continue with what we are doing.
(This argument is tricky because on the one hand, without the fire of the ego that wants to find the stillness, we would be lying on our mats doing nothing, but on the other hand, blindly following the ego into uncharted territory and trusting the drive to be the best can lead us straight off a cliff.)
But maybe it is literally supposed to be a 6 day a week asana practice. Do all the old school luminaries still practice? If the previous discussion of pain and injuries holds true, then the only way to be able to sustain is to pull back and practice with humility and patience--which probably none of us really does. But we're trying though :)
The point? I think we just don't get it yet. As much as we say it, we can't figure out how to practice without thinking about the asanas. A trip to Mysore doesn't help. You'll hear me singing the "it's not about the poses" mantra soon, but even so, I think that students get injured in Mysore because they are pushing hard to get poses. It is what it is.
No one is forcing anyone to do anything. No one tells you that you have to do something if you don't want to. There are smart ways to work with and through pain and injury and there are really stupid ways to do it too. The question is not whether ashtanga yoga is a lifelong practice but whether or not we are up to the challenge.
Is ashtanga really a life-long practice? Does it actually make people healthier? Why does it seem that everyone gets injured at some point, and how many long-term practitioners are still practicing ashtanga yoga as taught in Mysore?
Okay Jason, this one is for you.
Ashtanga yoga is "advertised" as a life-long practice. Let us first consider exactly what constitutes as the life-long practice. The Yoga Sutras say that "practice" does not refer only to asana, but to the "effort toward steadiness of mind". So although I might say that I'm going to "do my practice", I am probably referring to "doing my asana practice". Asana (poses) are only one segment of the complete ashtanga yoga system, so really, I am always trying to practice an effort toward steadiness of mind. I don't go into "yoga mode" for one hour and a half while I throw myself around on a cotton rug and then go outside to yell obscenities at each asshole who crosses my path. And what if I broke my arm? What would I do then?
But if it isn't about the asanas, then how about that quote that people love: "99% practice 1% theory"? What does this really mean? 99% doing vinyasas, 1% reading philosophy? 99% muscle, 1% brain? I think it's more like 99% moving toward stillness, 1% gathering more information on how to do that. (Although one could even argue that "gathering" is effort as well. I think the real point here is that one has to actually be actively DOING this stuff rather than just sitting around thinking about how maybe one day it will come knocking on the front door.)
So if our definition of practice includes much more than asana, then it is easy to imagine people practicing well into their nineties. Might Guruji be practicing asana right now in Mysore had he not gone through his tragic loss of a son? Who can say? Would Krishnamacharya have him doing asana to help his health problems? Maybe. We see many photos and videos of Krishnamacharya practicing asana and pranayama into very old age. But for whatever reason, as far as I know, Guruji does not currently practice asana. What his daily practice consists of I cannot say. Ask him when you're in Mysore...
Does ashtanga make people healthier? If we talk only about the asanas, we find that each asana has therapeutic benefits for the body and mind from helping to remove "bad fat" to massaging the liver to aiding constipation or urinary tract problems. The vinyasa method and ujjayi pranayama each have benefits as well. Additionally, the lifestyle surrounding ashtanga yoga asana practice and ashtanga yoga practice in general promotes healthy life choices. However, like anything else in life, it is about balance, and with a little bit of effort, we can easily overdo it.
The more I think about it, the more it becomes obvious that this system is only harmful if we make it that way and we tend to make it that way when we get really involved with the ego. For example, why would someone carry on an unhealthy form of extreme dieting unless they felt that it would make their practice better? (I want to "get" karandavasana so I'm doing macrobiotic fast number 7.) Isn't it possible to make gradual changes that are healthy or even to be patient and not obsess about progress? When does effort toward stillness become unhealthy or even dangerous?
So is ashtanga yoga a yoga of injuries and pain? We can break pain and injuries associated with ashtanga yoga into a few different categories. The first type of pain is associated with an injury that was already an injury before the asana and as we push ourselves into something (because we feel we have to accomplish it) the pain of the preexisting injury doesn't go away. The second kind of pain comes when we go deeper into something and discover a misalignment that was already there and as we work through it (because we want to perfect the asana) it causes us pain. The third kind of pain happens when we push hard to get into an asana and get injured because we weren't doing it properly or weren't prepared to practice it. The fourth kind of pain comes from faking the ability to practice a posture and getting injured when a teacher calls the bluff and adjusts us deeper or allows us to continue with what we are doing.
(This argument is tricky because on the one hand, without the fire of the ego that wants to find the stillness, we would be lying on our mats doing nothing, but on the other hand, blindly following the ego into uncharted territory and trusting the drive to be the best can lead us straight off a cliff.)
But maybe it is literally supposed to be a 6 day a week asana practice. Do all the old school luminaries still practice? If the previous discussion of pain and injuries holds true, then the only way to be able to sustain is to pull back and practice with humility and patience--which probably none of us really does. But we're trying though :)
The point? I think we just don't get it yet. As much as we say it, we can't figure out how to practice without thinking about the asanas. A trip to Mysore doesn't help. You'll hear me singing the "it's not about the poses" mantra soon, but even so, I think that students get injured in Mysore because they are pushing hard to get poses. It is what it is.
No one is forcing anyone to do anything. No one tells you that you have to do something if you don't want to. There are smart ways to work with and through pain and injury and there are really stupid ways to do it too. The question is not whether ashtanga yoga is a lifelong practice but whether or not we are up to the challenge.
Nice one, Elise. You always have great, informed and thoughtful insights.
ReplyDeleteI wonder, though, about the reader's comment that only 2 of the 6 featured in the Yoga Works video still practice daily. Based on what I've been told, that is low number. Maty, Chuck, Richard, Eddie? Seriously? I don't believe it. Certainly they may have refined or modified as they got older, but...
And the question I'd like to ask with regard to the MRI scans is did they actually help anyone?
Great post Elise- I really like the injury part. It's something I've been meaning to blog about since injury seems to be so linked with Ashtanga.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Dan, I wondered the same thing! I thought most of the older Ashtangis were still practicing. Maybe they're not doing triple flips in between their 4th series practices, but like you pointed out Elise, yoga is not all about the asana. I bet a lot of them are focusing more on pranayama and meditation and have less physical practices.
Asana doesn't save us--that's for sure. Now that I've been practicing around ten years, I notice most people at the workshops have been practicing 2 years, and there are hardly any people who have been practicing much more than that--it's strange. Also, I notice that the older ashtangis are just as old looking as their non-yoga peers. That doesn't shock me too much--but I am a little surprised to see them equally stooped and bent. We get trained to think yoga saves us from death or ill health, or something like that, but like Dave Swenson says, it doesn't. He says he does yoga b/c his days go better when he does it. It's sort of sobering--but it's best. It's okay not to do yoga for self gains. It's enough just to do it.
ReplyDeleteTara
It's all relative I suppose. Do you really think David Williams, David Swenson - or Patthabi Jois for that matter - look 'typically' their age?
ReplyDeleteWell, I have never seen Pattabi Jois in person--but he seems to get around very well for his age. From pictures, he looks young for his age--but it's still not the same as seeing him face-to-face.
ReplyDeleteI think David Williams looks his age, and though David Swenson looks really good, I think he appears to be a nice looking man in his early 50s. He is not really old enough to look old or anything though (50 isn't old to me.)
In fact both of them look good--they're lean and active, so that does make a person youthful and attractive when they get older. But I think they look their ages--just fit and nice looking. Maybe I'm crazy, but their ages don't surprise me.
I'm glad I feel this way though b/c I'm not expecting anything outer from yoga.
Elise,
ReplyDeleteA terrific and thoughtful post! Nice.
As far as the Yoga Works crew — their practices are their own business, and we'll leave it at that, though this can be a good question when anyone attends a workshop: how has one's practice changed as the body has aged?
If we are going to practice asana artfully, with skill and grace, we are going to practice, practice, practice ... and we are going to fall on our faces and fail, just like any artist. We are going to do this a lot.
Which suggests to me that, when we are working at extreme ends of the spectrum, physically, injury is part and parcel of the process — both avoiding it AND working with it if (when?) it occurs.
Which leaves us the question: what IS the practice? It is superficially about the asana, but it's about more, and I would hope that everyone's asana practice evolves to suit their needs over time.
Pattabhi Jois has also said that, after age 45, the advanced series are unimportant, and that the first two series are enough.
Lord, are they ever.
best,
jason
And just to clarify — my suggestion about the Yoga Works crew was not that they don't practice — just that what constitutes their practice — the sequences of ashtanga vinyasa yoga — has, for 4 of those 6 people, at least, drastically changed.
ReplyDeleteHi Elise,
ReplyDeleteSorry I am responding to an earlier post - about the advice to 'open the back of the knee'. After trying to do this I found I can now cdontrol my descend in dropbacks and successfully did 2 dropbacks on my own today, after trying for about 2 years ! Will see if I can still do it tomorrow ! Keep the advices coming please !
Floss
Dan-
ReplyDeleteBah! Well thanks!
I really couldn't say what their current practices are like. Perhaps we should email them? They might have some interesting things to say on the topic...
I don't know anyone who had an MRI while I was in India, but I do know two people who don't have health insurance in the USA who got X-rays of their spines. This was purely informational in nature. They were having back pain and wanted to figure out what was going on in there so that they might be able to change the way they moved. 2 other people had herniated disks, not sure if these were existing, self, or teacher inflicted injuries.
Liz- Thanks! I'd like to read your blog on the subject...
I remember hearing someone say that after a certain point, you start giving back asanas instead of getting them. I like that.
Tara-That is a really interesting observation about how one only sees newbies in workshops. But I think it also has to do with the fact that the longer you practice the more you realize that there aren't any quick fixes and what you really have to do is practice. Could it be also that one becomes more fixed in the nature of their practice? For instance, perhaps they are devoted to self practice or a particular teacher or shala and are therefore unwilling to study with anyone else?
I think that the body and mind seem to adapt to the yoga practices and that it requires evolutions over time to maintain them whether that means new asanas, refining one's approach to physical practice, or integrating non-asana practices.
I think it's important to see that all the asana practice just sets the stage for everything else; that it isn't the end-all as David Swenson says. It is sobering, but I really think it nips the topic in the bud. Thanks!
Dan- That's a really hard generalization to make. Obviously, their physical condition in terms of strength and flexibility surpasses many of age. In terms of the faces it is hard to say.
anon- :)
Jason-"how has one's practice changed as the body has aged?"
In that book on Krishnamacharya--I think it's called the yoga of the yogi but I don't remember--they talk about how there are different stages of yoga practice. When you are young, the emphasis is on perfecting the asana but as you get older it is more about the pranayama and meditation.
Floss-Wonderful! Keep me updated :)
Elise,
ReplyDeleteTim Miller suggests that over time, practice becomes less about making it happen and more about allowing it to happen. Whatever "it" may be.
To paraphrase Patanjali, "eka tattva abhyasa," so for me, given the utility of the techniques of ashtanga vinyasa yoga, I suspect my practice will involve following the breath and engaging the bandhas.
Perhaps not so much prancing about in black spandex, however.
best,
jason
but is it really yoga without the black spandex?
ReplyDeleteHA HA HA HA!!!
ReplyDeleteit's not ashtanga without spandex and hairy shoulders
ReplyDeleteFuck yoga shit? Had me intrigued for a minute there... Anyway, this is a good post.
ReplyDeleteYou know how Ram Dass says, of his post-stroke writings, that his job now is to telegraph some tips on aging and dying back to younger generations?
I feel like we could give the senior teachers more space to do this. Two teachers who occupy kind of large pedestals have mentioned how difficult it is for senior teachers to be open with what their practice is now. Because students have fantasies about senior teachers’ physical practices and might be upset or confused by the truth (witness recent EZB discussions about teachers who do and don’t maintain their asana practices—some extreme idealism in there).
Senior teachers’ practices are their own business, ok. But I’d sure like a broad sampling of what that means—what these several dozen people with especially refined body-awareness and hopefully cultivated equanimity might tell me about what I can expect… the “leading edge” of ashtanga “research.”
Is it possible to create an environment where our questions about what practice looks like at 50, 60 and beyond could be answered in detail without those answers freaking us out? Maybe, too, one in which those who are older still have access to practice community?
I love your posts, Elise--they are always so informative, certainly for me as a new Ashtanga practitioner.
ReplyDeleteI liked your discussion on Guruji's practice... I have often wondered about what he does, since reading the AYRI page it does look like he does practice... (whatever)
More generally, I do agree that injuries emerge mostly when people try to force themselves too soon into things/poses they are not prepared to do. At my stage it is hard to injure myself too much (in my Mysore practice I haven't gotten to poses that could really hurt me yet... sigh) but I am determined to go on slowly, working on getting to the point in which I can do the challenging poses safely... (cross fingers).
I also do hope that Yoga will be a lifetime thing. Maybe I will discover in full what is there aside the asanas--though so far my limited view is that focusing on the asanas has quieted my mind significantly and overall I've been feeling much more peaceful. I know that there is probably much more behind it... and I hope that I will be able to discover it and keep up with it over the years...
Great post - really love your interpretation of 99% practice, 1% theory ...
ReplyDeleteo-good points
ReplyDeleten-slowly slowly
c-thanks!